I’ve titled this note “Unity Divine”.
The reason for this title is because Christian Unity is not that which is derived from man but rather it is “Divine” in nature.
Not only do you find Unities origin in God but I believe it is an essential truth given to all believers who have been regenerated in Christ.
In this note my intentions are to point out the supremacy of unity as compared to a multitude of other activities Christians believe they are called to in the Lord. Some of which are genuine and some of which aren’t.
I will begin with a brief description of Christian unity as given to us in the gospel of John chapter 17.
In this chapter we see our Lord praying to the Father. In verse 5 we see Jesus praying that He will once again be glorified together with the Father. Jesus was preparing to die at the hands of sinners and once again be glorified together with the Father. A glory in which they had before the creation of the world. This verse describes a glory or a “Unity” the He and the Father had even before the creation of the world.
Jesus in verse 11 continues to pray that now that He is leaving the world, now that He will once again be glorified together with the Father, He prays that the Father would keep those whom have been given to Christ, (His Disciples) that the Father would keep them in this position of relationship so that they too may be ONE as He and the Father are One.
Jesus prays that the Christians will be unified together as One just as He and the Father are unified together as One. We see this again in verse 21 where He says;
…….”that they all may One as you Father are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be One in us, that the world may believe that you sent Me.”
So from this we see Christian unity defined as well as having its origin in the Godhead.
SECOND POINT
I believe from this 17 chapter of John we can also see the SUPREMACY OF CHRISTIAN UNITY.
This is what I mean by supremacy.
In Christ we have been given Wisdom and insight into the mysteries of life. We understand things such as the nature of man, the deception of the world, the nature of evil. We have also come to understand the attributes of God, the means of grace, and Gods design for sanctification. We have also come to know many other things such as the cultural mandate, our call to evangelize and the order of Worship, and the list goes on…
My point is, everything in this bag of wisdom and commands of Christ are given to us by Gods grace through the gospel of Christ, all of it comes to us FROM the supremacy of our POSITION IN GOD.
Whereas the unity of the Spirit, the Oneness of believers, is not an attribute or fruit of the Spirit such as Wisdom or a heart to obedience, but rather Christian unity is SUPREME in that IT IS our position in the Godhead. We are unified together IN CHRIST.
Christians are One together IN Christ, IN the Father. As Christ and the Father are One. So now, through the gospel, Christians are One in Christ and IN the Father. This is our IDENTITY.
Whereas, all Wisdom and obedience of heart given to man by Gods grace comes from HE of whom we are now identified with. Our works come FROM our position and oneness IN the Godhead. This makes our Unity IN Christ supreme.
One is a fruit FROM our position and the other IS our position.
ALL GENUINE BELIEVERS WHO ARE IN CHRIST ARE CONNECTED TOGETHER AS ONE JUST AS JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.
This makes our Christian unity supreme over all else. All our differences need to take a back seat to our common unity in the Faith. In fact in Ephesians 4 we are commanded to KEEP THE UNITY OF THE SPIRIT IN THE BOND OF PEACE.
This means while we all have our differences, especially these days of political differences, (while we shouldn’t stop striving altogether in politics) we need to agree to disagree and hold to the supremacy of our Unity in Christ. Not just laying down our differences begrudgingly but holding our common faith in high esteem and being passionate in it above all else.
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Steve Hunt
ReplyDeleteNow as far as me defining Christian unity as "mere contemplation and theory", you know that's not what I am saying. I am saying that if we really are NOT united, then yes, it is just mere contemplation and theory. Now, how do we KNOW that we are united?
STEVE'S COMMENT
ReplyDeleteI think you answered this yourself where you said, "He had communion with the Father and FROM this position, He worked." Now if Christ worked because of, and from, His position in the Godhead, then are we to do any less or expect any less from ourselves or from each other? And it can't be just any work. We have to be united in our work if we ... Read Moretruly are united. Like Eric alluded to, we can't say we are united to a professing Christian who is a KKK member, because his work goes contrary to true unity in Christ. The KKK member's "work" proves to us that we are not united with him, and that he most likely is not even united to Christ.
Hey! How'd I get over here? ...lol.
ReplyDeleteLet me start with this.
ReplyDeleteMy whole point is that because christian Unity is so connected to the unity of the Godhead, I believe it needs to be held high and supreme even over what we perceive to be Good Work in Christ.
This must be true simply because our communion with God and in turn with each other in Christ is Eternal Life.
Knowing God is Eternal Life. Works are a result of eternal life. Where there is disagreement in works there must be submission to
Ephesians 4:2,3
"....with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace".
Okay, I am in agreement with your whole point. We do hold high and we do hold the supremacy of our Christian unity being connected with the unity of the Godhead over the work that comes out of that...but, not because it is any "less important", but only because it is impossible to have the later without the former.
ReplyDeleteBeing united with the Godhead and each other would be pointless without a purpose. So my point is, we cannot as finite creatures, try to separate our position in the Godhead from the purposes that that same Godhead has for us. The second we do that or try to think like that, we are attempting to remove ourselves from the very position God has ordained.
Now, can you agree with me on that before we continue?
Btw, when I say we are attempting to remove ourselves from the very position God has ordained, I am talking about that position of unity with the Godhead and the rest of the Saints that you are talking about. That position of unity includes God's purposes for that unity and for us to try to separate them is to try to dissolve that unity. Just like marriage; we unite in marriage not just for the sake of being united, but included in that union is what that union will produce. Even in all of God's creation we never see union or unity separated from the sense of what that union will produce, as this is ever present in the mind of God when it comes to union. All species unite to produce. All seed must unite with the earth to produce. All contracts are signed between two parties to produce.
ReplyDeleteI go into the store. I bring what I want to buy to the counter. I hand the clerk a dollar bill. The clerk grabs it...we have united. We freeze in that position; the clerk and I are both holding either end of the dollar bill. We are united, frozen in time. We both share a purpose in this unity, which is to unite our resources for a specific purpose. If we were to stop there, frozen in our unity, simply to glory in that unity and marvel at its greatness and superiority, our unity would be absurd. Other customers would walk in and gasp! 911 would eventually be called as the clerk and I stand there over the counter in complete unity.
ReplyDeleteThat above little analogy with the clerk is an example of unity without works is dead.
ReplyDelete"Knowing God is Eternal Life. Works are a result of eternal life. Where there is disagreement in works there must be submission to Ephesians 4:2,3"
ReplyDeleteOkay, now let's take my analogy and apply it to your above quote. I bring what I want to buy to the counter and hand the clerk my dollar bill. The clerk grabs the bill. We are both holding the bill in transaction...we stop. The clerk thinks, "Is this bill real? It could be counterfeit". I think, "Are these chips I'm buying stale? I might be so dissapointed." So we both, once again, are frozen in our union, not proceeding to the logical conclusion of that union because we lack confidence in every aspect of that union.
Now this part of the analogy is impossible with true unity of the Saints with God and with each other. God has provided both the dollar bill and the bag of chips. The bill is real and the chips are not stale because the union as well as the work are both ordained by God.
So our responsibility as Saints, is not only to understand the authenticity and genuineness of our union with God and the rest of the Saints as you are doing, but it is also to understand the authenticity and genuineness of the work God has provided with that union as I am doing. Both are equally important in having a true union. If we disagree in the work, then there is a fundamental problem that must be overcome and resolved, just as importantly as if there were a question of whether or not those we are attempting to unite with are actually Christians and are actually united with God. We can't simply sweep the work under the rug because we disagree with what that work is, no more than we can sweep under the rug our doubts about a self-professing Christian's salvation.
I run the risk of you not even reading these by posting so much, but I am typing as I come across these analogies...please, I hope you read them.
ReplyDeleteA man and a woman are in love. They want to marry. But what of the work of that union? The woman has in mind for the work of their marriage, tons of kids. Her idea of the work God ordains for the union of marriage is God's idea...to have Godly offspring, (Malachi 2:15), and to teach them the ways of God. To stay at home and to raise them for God. The man however, is not concerned about God's purpose and work for the marriage. He only wants the union so he can have a wife for his own pleasure and purposes. What will become of this union? Should there even be a union? If they marry, and they never try to resolve the fundamental purposes of their union, won't they both be unbearably miserable? Wouldn't they in effect be unequally yoked?
My point is, the work God has ordained for the union He has created between Himself and the Church is fundamental to the existence of that union. The Church MUST be in line with God's purposes for being united with Him and should never be swept under the rug for the sake of unity...otherwise, the unity is not real.
More on Ephesians 4:2-3
ReplyDeleteSo the point of preserving this unity in Ephesians 4, is not to ignore our differences about the fundamental work of the Church, but it is to ignore differences that are unrelated to the work of the Church. On the contrary, Paul's whole point is to encourage us to pursue the work of this unity; 4:12..."for the equipping of the saints for the WORK OF SERVICE, to the building up of the body of Christ;"
Another way to see this is, that God would never even consider any union with a people who were not very concerned about the specific work they would do being a part of that union, just as a Godly woman in her right mind would never consider a union with a man with no Godly purpose for marriage. God would expect those He calls to unite with Him to have the same regard for the work as they do for Him. Any belittleing of the work in the mind of those God calls, God would consider a belittleing of Himself, and, of the union He has created.
ReplyDeleteSo we have to wonder, what about us as Saints claiming unity with "Saints" who could care less about the work of God, or, who have a very wrong idea about what that work is? It seems to me that if this were the case, (and it is), our first priority would be to hammer out once and for all what the work IS that we are united to, before we can rejoice in any so-called unity. Until we can agree on the work, we have no business claiming we are truely united.
The more I read about the elect in scripture, the more I am convinced that Adam is very correct in his view (classiclly reformed) that our sancification never ultimately amounts to much. Even the most sanctified Christian still is an evil creature.
ReplyDeleteSteve, I think you should really ponder your stance on what God really expects from Christians. When you say "God would never even consider any union with a people who were not very concerned about the specific work they would do being a part of that union, just as Godly woman in her right mind would never consider a union with a man with no Godly purpose for marriage". The problem with that is, there is no human that God looks at and says "that person will honor my contract", remember, when God entered into a convenant with Abraham, God went through the animal WITHOUT Abraham, showing that we sleep in this agreement, and God does all the work. Trully, the only works that matter are the works that show we are saved.
God is not trying to restore this world by using us as that tool. God is only saving some before He destroys it completely.
Our obligation is to repent and attend church. It is not that hard.
I didn't say it Eric...Jesus and Paul say it, and I have pondered this quite a bit and for quite a few years. And yes, there are people who God will look at and say, "that person will honor my contract". Those people are the Saints who are in Christ. We have a duty and an obligation to God, in Christ, to be and do what He expects us to be and do. Of course we will fall short. I am not arguing that. But we should never 'minimize' this as our goal as you are trying to do here.
ReplyDeletePlus, I believe you need to really consider your stance when you say that our only obligation is to repent and attend church. That too is like telling Paula the only obligation you have to her is to tell her your sorry all the time and come home every day. This is an over-simplification of any relationship, especially one of God and His Church.
ReplyDeleteEric, no disrespect to you, or to Pastor Adam, but you are starting to sound more and more like you believe the 3rd use of the law is no different than the 1st use of the law. How can you ever rejoice with the psalmist who delights in the law of the Lord, His statutes, and His commandments when your mind is filled with "my sanctification never ultimately amounts to much"?
ReplyDeleteDo you think God thinks your sanctification is as worthless as you and Pastor Adam make it sound? Why bother with such an attitude? After all, if God thinks like that, He'll understand if we only do things 'half-heartedly'...heck, what can He expect from "evil creatures".
However, Paul says "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me". That's the attitude I want. Not some self-defeating whoa is me I'm such an evil creature attitude. I pray that you and Pastor Adam do the same.
Eric, one more thing. Of course we are sinful creatures, and thank God we are now in Christ. But we still have the capacity to be passionate about things. What is more worthy of our passion and excitement than trying to live for the Lord? Anything? If we can't be excited about that, and look forward to that on a daily basis, then what the heck is life worth living for? Does anything at all compare to our joy in the Lord? I believe this 'theology' you are re-visiting is just as destructive as sin. It has robbed me of my joy many times, and in Christ there is no reason for it and no excuse for it.
ReplyDeleteOops, just noticed one more thing Eric. Your statement regarding Abraham and the covenant. First, God did do the work of that covenant, just as He did in our salvation. So what? How does this minimize our sanctification? You say "the only works that matter are the works that show we are saved". How do you arrive at this conclusion right after you mention that God is the one who does all the work for our salvation? And what is the difference between works that prove our salvation, works that prove our sanctification, and works that prove we are seeking the Kingdom of God? I don't see any difference in any work at all if we are in Christ. Please explain what those differences are.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteQUOTE
ReplyDelete“We do hold high and we do hold the supremacy of our Christian unity being connected with the unity of the Godhead over the work that comes out of that...but, not because it is any "less important", but only because it is impossible to have the later without the former”. END QUOTE
Steve, there are situations where you have communion with the Godhead yet there is no chance for works. The thief on the cross is a good example of that. So if works were just as important than wouldn’t the thief’s communion with God somehow be lacking.
ANOTHER QUOTE
“Being united with the Godhead and each other would be pointless without a purpose”. END QUOTE
Our Lord responded to the disciple who was chastising the woman for worshiping Jesus with costly perfume rather than doing a “WORK” by giving it to the poor
“For you always have the poor with you; but you do not always have Me.”
Math. 26:11
Steve from your comments I think your missing the real value of what it is to commune with God.
Reconciliation to God in Jesus Christ is everything. His glory, His holiness, the supremacy of who He is, if there were nothing else this would be more than sufficient. Just to bask in His presence and know Him more and more each day should be all that anyone could ever hope for.
To serve Him in works is a privilege.
Psalm 27:4
One thing I have asked from the LORD, that I shall seek:
That I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life,
To behold the beauty of the LORD
And to meditate in His temple.
Having made that point, I will concede that most of us who are not the thief on the cross types do produce works accompanied with salvation. Faith without works is indeed dead.
I want to post this for you review while I “work” on my second point. What exactly are good works? Are there genuine Works that should submit to Ephesians 4? I will be back.
Sorry Eric, but you are not making any sense to me at all. Mike, well put. I'll get back to you on this in the a.m.
ReplyDeleteOkay guys, good morning. It's a.m. now and I feel more refreshed to contimplate this page once again. Yippie!
ReplyDeleteAnyway, Eric, I don't know what's going on with you. Just a few days ago I thought all was fine between us and then you come on here as if I just killed your dog or something. Whatever it is I said, then please forgive me. I meant no harm or disrespect toward you as I said. You obviously meant much harm to me, so what gives? I don't expect you'll want to answer on this board, but if so, please do, or just call me. No hard feelings. I still love you, and of course I love Paula and don't want this to hinder any of our relationships.
Mike, again, well put, and again I am in agreement with what you are saying. I really don't see what I have said that has shown I miss any real value of communing with God. This is exactly my point, though I know I don't express it very well. The joy of the Lord IS my strength, and this is what I am getting at, especially in my last notes to Eric on this page.
I am confident in my "relationship" to the Lord, and I no longer have to continue to try and repair that relationship because it is secure in Christ. This is my joy and this, therefore, is my strength.
It is this strength that gives me a renewed hope in the "work" of God. It makes perfect sense to me. I've said all I could say about that, and I am still learning, but I just wanted to try reassure you of my "security in Christ", and that I have not left my first love and replaced it with a love for works or something. I am simply loving the work more because I am experiencing a renewed love and communion with our Lord. I hate to say it like that because it sounds arrogant, but it seems that this is the clearest way to express what is going on with me.
Since attending the Reformed Church over the past few years my joy and love for the Lord has been subtly "pooh-poohed" and downgraded to nothing more than a selfish display of emotional immaturity. I'm sure you know what I mean because we've talked about this many times. That has caused great destruction in my own sense of real communion with God, and this is why I say this theology is just as bad as sin. I don't want to pretend that I am not extremely excited about being in Christ any more. It is not good for me, and I don't believe it is good for the rest of my family or the rest of the Church.
I know I can be argumentative, but that comes from being excited about learning new things, new insights, and I guess I haven't learned yet how to be more considerate and tactful to others while trying to express these things. I'm thinking that because of that I need to just leave others alone and do what I have to do with likeminded believers who can understand what I'm trying to say. That sounds more constructive than constantly trying to change people's minds.
Anyway, have a blessed day, and I can't wait to hear your second point on what exactly good works are.
QUOTE
ReplyDelete“So we have to wonder, what about us as Saints claiming unity with "Saints" who could care less about the work of God, or, who have a very wrong idea about what that work is”? END QUOTE
Ok here we go. Your above statement communicates what you have consistently communicated in many different ways over a long period of time.
While I like what you said in your last post about leaving others alone who are not like minded it is sad to me that you feel you are called to this so called “work” of pointing out the errors of Gods church.
I understand why God called “Martian Luther” to this task, because of the adulterating of Gods word at the time. But your ambitious drive to point out the churches lack of interest in governmental affairs in my opinion does not compare to the time of Luther. Don’t get me wrong, I do believe the church has in a large degree neglected its calling here but I also believe you are neglecting our higher calling to unity by your radical stance against the church.
Not so in Luther’s case. Because of the corrupt misrepresentation of God and His word, there could be no unity.
Now on to Works.
You refer to your radical position as a “Work of God”. You also criticize the saints who are not on board with this, quote “work of God”.
I’m no expert here but from what I can see there are two avenues of Works in scripture. Personal works and corporate works.
Personal works would be those of Law which are commanded by God to individuals. Corporate works would be those of the organized Church which in my limited knowledge would consist of Order of Worship and evangelism.
While I do see our responsibility (both individual and corporate) to uphold truth and justice in local civil affairs, I do not see anywhere in scriptures God calling us to a work of such a degree that you are so radically promoting.
I do believe the church needs to wake up in its calling to lead Gods people in their proper function of governmental affairs, but I do not believe it should be done in the radical fashion in which you are promoting. We should influence our church leadership and become leaders. But a radical stance at the destruction of our higher calling of unity, in my opinion, is not from God.
Like I said, I've said all I can say here; however, I will correct you on one thing only and it's this, "But a radical stance at the destruction of our higher calling of unity, in my opinion, is not from God."
ReplyDeleteThis proves, maybe not to you, but it does to me, that you are not understanding what I am talking about...but that's okay. I don't say that to argue, just to let you know that that is NOT my position. Just take my word for it if you don't understand what my position is...because that is not it.
Like I said, I've tried every which way I could to explain my real position, but to no avail so I won't try that again, just wanted to make it clear that what you posted is NOT it.
So I am willing to leave it at that for now. It's one thing for me to try and convince you of my position, but it's another for you to publish here what is not my position and say that it is. When that happens I have to say, no, not me. I don't believe that. Otherwise, again, I agree with what you just posted.
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